full vs. partial

topic posted Fri, November 16, 2007 - 5:51 AM by 
Can one be partially enlightened? Isn't enlightenment an all-or-nothing endeavor?
posted by:
  • The various definitions and arbitrary points are the confusion.

    I think of it as an apple ripening on a tree. One day, the apples falls from the tree...never to return.

    Likewise, there are spiritual experiences and mini-awakenings, but that is the ripening process. A little understanding may be gained...and so if you focus on this Enlightenment looks gradual and in degrees of partiality. However, one day you awaken (fall from the tree) and you can never really fall asleep again. That point of realization that changes everything...for now vision is clear. This is enlightenment...falling from the tree...it is an all or nothing kind of thing. There is no partial falling from a tree.

    There is a point of no return.

    ~ Eric Putkonen
    www.awaken2life.org
    • The teachers and gurus I've met or been with would all say no. There is either enlightenment or not. And from what I've seen and experienced I'd agree with that.


      Though I've been to a satsang or 3 that seem to have a different view. Most satsangs are just trying to give you that glimpse or taste, which is really nice but... the come down is a real Bitch. I remember one satsang teacher who told me I was enlightened and that I should give satsang. I protested a bit saying I didn't think I was enlightened and the teacher said "Its like an electric fan, you can cut the power and it(ego) will still turn for a time of its own momentum" nice sentiment... but not true in my experience.

  • The best definition I know of is:

    "the willingness to lighten up"
    • there are circles and when it goes pump and the games starts all over again you have choice to rise above or not. Does half story tell us the whole story? Does half truth really means anything. Something exists or it does not.
      • <<<Mickey: "Can one be partially enlightened? Isn't enlightenment an all-or-nothing endeavor?">>>

        Who cares? Me personally I enjoy NOT being enlightened.
        • like some say .. if you BE(exist) your elinghtened.. im afraid there is no escape from it.. have to just suck it in and drop n roll on a door mat of yar local guru.
  • Not an easy question, as are all good questions of things beyond words. All thought is in terms dualistic, so in a way, it can be both. Enlightenment is "thought", by some, as a graduation day, and by others as a state of being. Most who have had Illumination experiences, which are often few and short lived, are profoundly changed by them. So much so that the dualistic nature of mind becomes deeply apparent to them and they proceed back into their lives from this enlightened way of being. But, the dualistic nature of experience, one that is constructed into the forms of all living things, can reenter a changed mind, and easily push it back toward dualistic responses. In this way, one who has been enlightened can still be so, in one moment, but, unfortunately, unenlightened (or less enlightened) in the next. Those who seek and find illumination through years of practice are better armed to stay illuminated than those who have the rare spontainious brief glimpse of the infinite, and have little or no ability to get back to it. I believe that there are gurus who are powerful enough to actually give students a taste of an illumination experience. The wise ones (if Paramahansa Yogananda is to be believed) do so sparingly, and only for students who can progress to make good use of it. Pretend gurus, sell enlightenment as if it were in a store for you to buy. This is not enlightenment, even if they do have some ability to give you something of an illuminating experience or useful methods of practice. Leading up to enlightenment, there are various gradations and stages of peacefulness and awareness that students can and do go through. Some are deep enough to be confused with enlightenment, and it is my belief that even a full experience of loss of a sense of individuality and a feeling of infiniteness (full illumination), can and does take different subtle forms in different people. AND, the aftereffects are then subject to their mind's interpretation of the experience in hindsight, and within the frames and beliefs of the individual. It can degrade into a tug of war that can have a big fat "I" in it instead of the immense feeling of nothingness and profound connection from whence it, and us, all have come (more duality here). The best masters are the ones who can stay in or close to a nondualistic way of being, while engaged in the world. Buddha for example. The best teachers are also the ones who can communicate this to others through both ideas and through non-mind experiences. Hope you get the idea. Hope this helps.
    • noone is gonna read that and nothing can be THAT important.
      • yeah write a book that no one will read already
        • <<<Nizza: "yeah write a book that no one will read already">>>

          So don't read it, but he is reading YOUR posts... Kris has a lot of spirit, but he's refusing to join in the love-fest. He must be the devil.
          • Protecting the innocent.. eh Franco.

            And Nizza Im having my music album released sometimes in the summer so you can enjoy not listening to it
            .....as long as you buy it (no freeloaders in my boat(EEEVerybody works)
            • The thing that gets me about allmost all of those who claim to be 'Enlightened' - whether they be buddhist, christian, jewish or hindu - is that they are so joyless....
              • you are so right.., id take juicy fruit over a rotten one any day. And that's what it is.. they are just lifeless.. fruits that will wither away with the winter and all that leaves behind are corpses slowly diminishing.
                • I was referring to the very long post by... I forget what the name is
                  Funny thing is I wuz making a joke and ya guys took it the wrong way
                  cuz yer so damn serious!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    sorry if you didn't catch my three jockes on the way to your post. whenever I come on this borad.. ITS strictly entertnaiment.. from now on. If you can follow this insight then you will understand me. *hugs*
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    <<<Nizza: "...I wuz making a joke and ya guys took it the wrong way
                    cuz yer so damn serious! ">>>

                    I stand corrected Master.
                    • yer more than excuzzed Mein Furher

                      and don't sweat the smoking Kris - Nisagardatta not only smoked like a chimney but he also ran a smoke shop!
                      The source - The I AM THAT sold smokes
                      so smoke up
                      Thats what lifes for!
  • The world is full of half-enlightened masters.

    Overly clever, too "sensitive" to live in the real world, they surround themselves with selfish pleasures and bestow their grandiose teaching upon the unwary.

    Prematurely publicizing themselves, intent upon reaching some spiritual climax, they constantly sacrifice the truth and deviate from the Tao.

    What they really offer the world is their own confusion.



    The true master understands that enlightenment is not the end, but the means.

    Realizing that virtue is her goal, she accepts the long and often arduous cultivation that is necessary to attain it.

    She doesn't scheme to become a leader, but quietly shoulders whatever responsibilities fall to her.



    Unattached to her accomplishments, taking credit for nothing at all, she guides the whole world by guiding the individuals who come to her.

    She shares her divine energy with her students, encouraging them, creating trials to strengthen them, scolding them to awaken them, directing the streams of their lives toward the infinite ocean of the Tao.



    If you aspire to this sort of master, then root yourself in the Tao.

    Relinquish your negative habits and attitudes.

    Strengthen your sincerity.

    Live in the real world, and extend your virtue to it without discrimination in the daily round.

    Be the truest father or mother, the truest brother or sister, the truest friend, and the truest disciple.

    Humbly respect and serve your teacher, and dedicate your entire being unwaveringly to self-cultivation.

    Then you will surely achieve self-mastery and be able to help others in doing the same.

    -Lao Tzu
    • yes isn't it ironic?!

      next thing you know Jubal is going tell us all about the time he met some high ass DJ at burning man who thought he was an enlightened! master.

      PS - thats a shit translation too! is that S. Mitchell? I like some of his stuff (trans)... but this one is dreck! the pc shit of changing he to she is always funny though... gee i didn' know women could do dat